Solar questions

[daswolter]

I am looking into getting solar for my future plans. The problem is I don't know much about it. The few questions I have are:
Is one brand better than another?

Is there one style better than another?

What exactly do you need for a solar setup? I know Panels, Batteries, Converter. What else?

Any company stand out from the pack?

Any help is appreciated.

[Jack of all Trapping]

Howdy Daswolter. There has been so much advancement in solar energy in the last year that it boggles the mind. This is all good. People need to quit relying on the ALMIGHTY GRID. I will tell you to study everything you can get your hands on about solar power. Learn it and then learn it more. It can be the greatest thing or a lethal enemy if your set up is not done correctly. A lot has to be considered before even starting your system.
Determine how much wattage you will need to run what you want to run off solar. Are you running a whole house? Are you tying into the grid system or is it standalone? 6 volt,12 ,or 24 volt system?
Most panels now a day last 20 plus years. I will tell you from my experience with solar power. I run 4 panels into a power disconnect box. This box kills all power to the system. Good to have when you are working on your system or leaving for a extended period. It basically prevents you from electrocution. It will save your life. I learned the hard way one time and got the snot knocked out of me. Your panels are alive as soon as the sun touches them. Remember that. After the disconnect box is your charge controller. This controls the amount of current to you batteries. Mine is a 30 amp controller. More than enough for what I run. You may need bigger. You don't want to overcharge your batteries is the reason for the controller. Your batteries are next. Get the best you can afford and add more when you can until your system is complete . I run a 12 volt system in parallel. You will learn what that means when you get into it. Next is my power inverter. It transfers power from DC to AC. Your household current is AC. I have a pure seine inverter. Two types are available. Pure seine and modified seine. Again,you will learn about the difference. I had modified seine before and switched to pure. Pure seine wave is more like the current found in your house. I found that the modified caused unnecessary noise due to irregular current flow.
All this plus the miles of cable ,fuses, and other components make up a system. I forgot to add your mounting system. Roof mounts are most common for panels but are difficult to maintain sometimes due to height and snowfall amounts on the roof which will have to be cleared off for your system to work properly . I have mine mounted on poles at a height of 6 foot or so. My mount also tilts for summer and winter use. The sun is higher in the sky in summer than winter.To maximize your input, the panels must be tilted accordingly for your area. Sorry for being longwinded, but I enjoy talking about solar. Please read everything you can on the subject. It will save your money and insure a proper investment and set up. Peace. Jack

[daswolter]

Hey Jack! Thanks a lot that really helped. And I am studying everything that I can find on this and other items I want in my future digs. I figure I have a year before I get the land, so I have a little time to study up on it.

[Jack of all Trapping]

Good luck my friend

[Admin]

Thanks for posting all that info Jack. I'll be putting panels on the cabin roof this spring.

[ctwatertrapper]

Howdy Daswolter, I am currently in the early stages of getting solar on my house. hoping to have it installed by the spring.  As far as brand goes, I was recommended to go with LG but  there were some other options that were just as good. I found that the big price differences between panels were associated with appearance more than performance. So I went with the cheap ugly one that produces the same power as the expensive pretty ones.

Also, don't forget to look into any incentives and/or rebates that might be available with the purchase. I was able to reduce my cost by almost 50%.

[daswolter]

Thanks CT! That was one of my concerns is some look different then others and wasn't sure of the differents. Looks don't matter to me as long as they work. Me and my wife will be the only ones looking at them.

[Admin]

Hey Jack,
When your panels are in full sun, is there enough wattage to run a skilsaw or similar tool? I don't know how much wattage those kinda things take.

[Deleted]

I know absolutely nothing about solar panels and the associated equipment but I do have one security question.....

Let's say you are thinking of installing a system at other than a full time location. And your equipment is going to be unattended for long periods of time. I assume the panels are worth the time for a thief to spend removing them from your property. What is valuable? And what is just too much of a problem due to size, weight and load for them to bother with?

[daswolter]

Hey JC. I'm obviously not the expert here but if I am understanding what I have read. It is going to depend on the watt panels you have and the inverter amperage that you have is going to determine if you can run a certain power tool or not. But then again I am by no means an expert. I still have a lot of studying to do. LOL

[daswolter]

opps

[daswolter]

pdf.wholesalesolar.com/Download%20folder/Power-table.pdf

Thought some of you might find this handy if you looking into solar.

[Jack of all Trapping]

Howdy boys!!! I was downstate cleaning snow(23 inches) off my sisters roof all day.


"A man has to know his limitations" I think this statement was made famous by Clint Eastwood It rings true or a man will burn himself out early. The same rings true with a solar system. I will try and answer both questions from JC and Dino.

1) A skil saw or circular saw is usually 15 amps. Some are 13 amps. Lets use a partial Ohms law formula. Amps x volts = watts. 15 amps x 120 volts (standard system AC) = 1800 watts. That would be for the start up of the saw. It needs this much power to start but only between 900 and 1000 watts to run. It is a lot by the way.
My system is 4 panels of 185 watts each. My panels require a good 4 to 5 hrs of full summer sun to operate at peak. Wintertime is almost impossible to acheive this because the sun sits lower in the sky. You may get 2 to 2 1/2 hrs tops. 1 panel of 185 watts after 5 hrs of summer sun produces 925 watts (185 x5 =925). 4 panels of 185 watts after 5 hrs of summer sun produces 3700 watts of power at the panel.
Sound good so far, but we aren't even close to done.
This must all be transferred to you batteries that hold the power. There will be a loss of power between transfer due to the cables(length),charge controller,fuses.etc. It could be as much as 20% if your distance is great. Mine is approx. 6%.  Batteries are the most important part of the system. I use 3 Trojan 31's. These are 12 volt deep cycle AGM industrial batteries not RUBBERS AGM means Absorbed Glass Mat. They are sealed batteries. I like them because they don't give off the gases that liquid(acid) batteries do. They last longer than say, Marine batteries, because of the thicker internal plates. Yup $$$$! !! Solar batteries are under constant charge and discharge. Marine batteries will wear down fast. These AGMs should last 7 to 9 years in a perfect world. These batteries are 105 ahs each and weigh in at 75 lbs a piece. Again lets formulate: 105ahs x 12 volts = 1260 watts of power. 1260 x 3 (105ahs) each =3780 watts.
Batteries, however only put out 80 % of their power though when fully charged. Also they must not be subjected to intense cold or even heat to run efficiently. 50 degrees to 80 degrees is about the best temps. When I leave on vacation in the middle of winter I leave a themostatically controlled propane wall heater on low at my place. The fridge is the only other propane appliance I operate. Also, batteries even these should not be discharged below 65 % capacity.You will take considerable life off the battery if you constantly do this.
So I would use approx. 1/2 my watts (1800) to start the saw and about 900 to keep it running. This is not including what else I run on solar. I run my Sundanzer freezer, 4 LED lights. radio, laptop, and a unique security system I came up with. You could run your saw,but it will definitely put a drain on the system. The constant start and stop with a skil saw is what drains the system. I use a generator for mine. I am also looking into the new solar generators with built in panels. I run my batteries in parallel. (neg to neg. pos to pos.) I am not familar with running in series which may be better for you. I am starting to read up on series now.  I am adding a solar refrigerator to my system in the Spring. I will be pretty much grid"unlocked"then. Good luck JC.

2) Yup people steal. Plain fact. A unattended cabin with panels is a prime target I would think. Mine are mounted on a pole system and easy to get to. Although this is easier to work on and keep the snow off, it is easier to steal them than a roof system mount. Panels have some weight but are more cumbersome by the size than anything. The batteries for my system are on a rolling box. I keep them on my back porch which is heated,vented, and locked. Again I use AGM that don't give off much if any gas(es).
I installed a security system I came up with for my place. Cameras, alarms,and a assorted other things make up my system. I have decals,"Smile your on camera" on my 2 doors. I also have a alarm on my laptop when someone comes up my drive. The cameras transfer the video to my laptop also no matter where I am. Retired cops have all the fun toys!!! Peace Jack

[daswolter]

WOW! Fellas we have a genius in our presents. Thanks Jack I wouldn't have been able to figure that out with out your description. Math is not one of my high point.

[Jack of all Trapping]

Good luck Buddy with your upcoming system.

[Admin]

Thank you Jack. I didn't think running power tools was feasible and was right. I have a very simple 12 volt system at my cabin and whenever I run my genny, I'm also throwing a charge to my batteries. I've left everything very basic until I put the panels on the roof in the spring. But even my simple system of battery and inverter serves my present needs better than I had ever expected. The LED lights are slick and probably why I have such success with my setup. Being wicked frugal helps too.

I'm assuming that the batteries you have are what they call "Gel batteries" as I have heard that the gel type don't gas off like the lead acid ones do.

I appreciate the advice and knowledge.

[ozarkgem]

I have a cabin totally off grid including air conditioning. I have a 4000 watt Magnum pure sine wave inverter. Get pure sine wave if you can afford it. A good inverter will also be a battery charger when you run the generator. All automatic. It will also power down when not in use. Look to see the watt draw when in standby mode. 300.00 China inverters will draw a lot of amps even when not in use. I use a 24 volt system. I have a forklift battery for storage. Weighs 1500 lbs so no one is running off with it. Bought it used for 750.00    750 amp hr battery.  I have a Midnight charge controller. I can run 200 volts DC to it and it will reduce the voltage to charge the battery. The beauty of this is smaller wire from the solar panels to the charge controller. I run 180 volts DC on a no `12 wire. I think my panels are 39 volts and I series them to get the volts. So the higher the  voltage the better. I guess it depends on if you plan to live full time or not on solar. There are some good deals on panels now. I bought my inverter from a repair place. The guy who had it fixed didn't want to pay the 600.00 bucks so that is what I got it for. I will try and add a few pics of my system. My pic is too big and I don't know how to resize it.
anyway good luck. Hope that helped.

[daswolter]

Hey thanks Ozarkgem. I plan on living as far off grid as possible.

[outdoorsman19]

Before installing PV solar panels, you should think about installing solar thermal panels instead( www.solarskies.com/)made in the USA. Instead of creating electricity they heat water and If your live in a colder climate this could cover up to 80% (one day it was -30 and the collector was at 105 degrees) of all your space heating and water heating needs which would cut a big chunk of your electric bill. 

[daswolter]

Outdoorsman 19 that for the suggestion. I plan on heating with wood and making my own pop can solar heaters to supplement the wood.